[Note: I hope that many of you had a happy Thanksgiving. Beyond being “thankful,” we also need to help others in need (by donating or by doing something)… so that they too may be thankful. ]
To intentionally meditate, at certain times of the day (using certain methods), is likely very limited, false, and likely makes the mind more mechanical, more calculating, and dull. To meditate to get something out of it… is to try to do something from a motive. A so-called meditator who tries to meditate to get nirvana (or to get some kind of “special” non-ordinary experience)… is (let’s face it) out to get something. Time and greed do not (and cannot) lead one to a timeless, non-greedy dimension. Time is sequential and greed (being in time) is, likewise, sequential. The timeless is not an achievement that comes about by calculation, motives, practices, methods, or learned procedures in (and “as”) time. However, there are oodles of people (i.e., charlatans) who (all too willingly) try to instill their methods upon you. And they have plenty of secondhand beliefs that they learned from others.
The beauty of spontaneous, simple, uncalculated awareness (without motives to get something) may come about naturally — without effort — in a mind that is unsullied, uncontaminated, and innocent. And it may be that, on the other hand, the supposed central (controlling) self that tries to meditate through methodology is essentially an obtrusion of conditioned thought/thinking (that is neither central, truly controlling, nor a true initiator of anything). Trying to meditate via the effort of a so-called central controller… is neither viable nor intelligent. Even while engaging in our so-called meditation (which we learned from others), most of us are reinforcing the perpetual conditioned illusion of a center (i.e., a central ego).
To perceive without effort can occur in a mind of deep order, intelligence, and health. Such effortlessness may be beyond the limitations of sequential motives and time. Such effortlessness does not reinforce an illusory center. Bliss, eternity, and a profoundly innocent mind are not separate things.
Tom's Nature-up-close Photography and Mindfulness Blog 
A PERFECT picture…. I have always distrusted meditation and never engaged in it – perhaps because for me grace occurs spontaneously – with that much said there are folks who do seem to benefit form these meditative practices and so I leave my door open to what I cannot know.
Thanks much, Sara! 😊
From what i have seen over the years, meditative practices make the mind more dull, repetitive, and robotic. Any benefits that people may receive via such practices are — when all is said and done — not worth the price.
I know one woman who routinely meditates and is an incredible bitch!!! so??????
Ps a lot of them do yoga too
Sitting to meditate, Sara, is inevitably a calculated means to an end. Physical yoga, though, is often good for the body and can help with things like arthritis and back problems.
I’ve done yoga and felt it’s positive effects – so you are right
As a meditator I see your point. For me it is a practice that has no purpose in mind, no goal, nothing to be attained. It is just being in that moment. Or as Yunmen, among others put it “In walking, just walk. In sitting, just sit. Above all, don’t wobble.”
Lou, if there is no purpose in doing it, one wouldn’t ever engage in the activity of doing it. Honestly, a motive exists behind it. But as i mentioned to Sara, above, such repetition or such routines have the tendency to make the mind dull and mechanical. So any benefits that one may glean out of it are not worth the price.
And there we shall hopefully agree to disagree, save that the pupose of my sitting is to just sit and be wholly in that moment on the zafu.
Yes… agreed! 😉
I enjoyed reading your post, and do see what you mean!
I have been back and forth on this quite a lot for many years, to find what really works for me: after deciding to meditate, I went to regularly meditating, not meditating at all, meditating occasionally, meditating only when it comes spontaneously.
I found the months when I was reading Krishnamurti regularly, my regular meditation practice dissolved (his views essentially reflect the message in your post). But then I moved on to reading some others, and I picked up where I had left off again.
So my personal experience is: I am able to remain spontaneously content in an ‘effortless innocence’, only after I have been through some sort of effort (although I do not doubt that a rare few may come upon it quite naturally). For me, tuning to my body-mind and observing it and understanding its whole mechanism of functioning was the essential “effort” that (partly, at least in the beginning) that coincided with regular meditation sessions. Once we get that knack, it can and does continue outside of any meditation ‘session’ , during whole day and night.
To summarise, the mind will be dropped only when it is understood completely with all its limitations seen clearly. Meditation may help with this first part, simply as a “tuning in” to our awareness independent of all perceptions, until it becomes natural and spontaneous.
Well, it is not what takes place when the mind is “dropped.” Mindful awareness is very much in existence when perception takes place. I never said anything about the mind being dropped, thank goodness.
It is very easy to engage in a form of self-hypnosis and come to the conclusion that the mind is in some kind of special meditation. Practicing it initially, or at any time really, pretty much ensures that it is a form of self-hypnosis. Tuning into something independent of perceptions is not meditation; it is self-hypnosis.
Thank you, though, for your very interesting comments. 😊
We might be referring to different things here, not surprising considering how ‘meditation’ is a widely used word just as ‘God’, meaning a lot of different things to different people.
What I mean by this word is to simply be alert, aware and consciously present to everything happening inside and outside the body-mind, a simple awareness of being, nothing that could be confused with any kind of hypnosis here, self or otherwise.
But I have no experience or authority to comment on a variety of other ‘activities’ or ‘processes’ many people undertake in the name of meditation. Thank you!
Ok, Ramble, but first you are writing about an awareness independent of all perceptions — as if that is holistically possible — and later you are writing about being aware of everything happening inside and outside the body-mind. Please be consistent. I am glad, however, that you are inquiring a lot more than most people are. That is great!
I do my heaviest thinking while walking Tom, but I am not totally still – does that make a difference? I like the mushroom umbrellas nestled in the leavs – very cool!
Deep pondering about things is often very good to do, Linda. But may i suggest also inquiring beyond where thoughts are needed? To simply and purely holistically perceive (beyond internal labels and images) may also be prudent.
Thanks much about the mushroom umbrellas. They are ready for the rain! 😊
I love mushrooms